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  #46  
Old 07-24-2012, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by VicSkimmr View Post
I'd feel safer because I'd be a lot less likely to be stabbed accidentally by someone carrying one of those tools, and even if I were accidentally stabbed I'd have a lot less chance of dying. It's not an illusion.

Frankly, I just don't care how much training and practice someone says they've had, I don't want them firing weapons around me in an uncontrolled environment, ever. I don't like the idea that civilians are carrying tools that can snuff the life out of someone in the blink of an eye, especially one that takes such an extraordinary amount of skill to wield properly.

I'm usually one who is willing to change their viewpoint on topics when debating if presented with compelling evidence. I've done it many times in the past. This is one debate that I'm sure no one could convince me to change sides on.

The chances of an accidental stabbing are as likely as an accidental shooting. Just because the panic box and propaganda hasn't been geared towards stabbing doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

It's hard for me to say, but it seems it's the typical fear of guns. Like they just go off or something. A gun in my pocket is no different than my knife. Honestly I am surprised you drive a car. They are MUCH more dangerous than guns. And every retard and their mother is out there with one. Just waiting to careen into you. I mean seriously what's the difference? The only difference is it's considered normal by your standards. The squawk box isn't in your ear telling you it should be ban. You've been doing it probably everyday since you got your license. So you feel like you can handle the situation should it arise. That is literally no different than a gun. Just that one you have more experience with. But how much formal training do you really have? If you were going 90 mph and got sideways, can you really handle it? The questions like that are the same as with a gun. Could you effectively use the weapon in a given situation should it get "sideways."

In 2010 - the latest year for which detailed statistics are available - there were 12,996 murders in the US. Of those, 8,775 were caused by firearms. An estimated 32,788 people were killed in traffic accidents in 2010, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

Having civilian status or not doesn't effect ones ability to be an effective defense against any kind of threat.

I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just giving my .02. With the right education, you'd see it for your self. I however, am not your instructor. By education I mean training. It's not just about physical, it's about mental. If you spent a month, hell even some of our week long courses would blow your mind.

Again, I appreciate what you're saying. I hope you never find your self in a situation that you coulda changed had you known how to handle it and had the proper tools. I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

Last edited by Bombardier; 07-24-2012 at 08:01 PM..
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  #47  
Old 07-24-2012, 08:13 PM
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At this point I don't see the point in discussing this further. I'm not going to have my intelligence insulted because I choose not to carry a deadly weapon.
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  #48  
Old 07-24-2012, 08:20 PM
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I certainly don't think that's what is going on. That wasn't my intention, sorry if it came off that way. I thought we were having a good time.



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Originally Posted by Porthos View Post
This dude was nuts and exploited the situation very well. He had a perfect plan of attack. He hit people when the were vunerable(just watching a movie) and overwhelmed all of their senses which caused an absolute sensory overload and basically shut the brain down. I do think though that if someone had a weapon to fire back this guy would have shit his pants and ran. It is easy to shoot a weapon at anything but, it is a whole nother thing getting shot at. It is down right terrifying and if you have never expierence it the first time changes you.

On another note I would like to leave this that was put on CNN today and one comment that proves that the government can't do anything about things like this so that is why they are allowing civilians to arm themselves.

Americans support gun rights because they believe guns are necessary for self-protection. As the Georgia lawmaker who introduced the law allowing guns to be carried in bars explained:

"Folks were being robbed, assaulted -- it was becoming an issue of personal safety. The police aren't going to be able to protect you. They're going to be checking out the crime scene after you and your family's been shot or injured or assaulted or raped."


http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/23/opinio...html?hpt=hp_c2
Thanks for the link!
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  #49  
Old 07-24-2012, 08:26 PM
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I don't know if anyone brought this up already but...

Exactly 1 year ago Anders Behring Breivik kill 69 people and wounded 110 others with an assault weapon in Norway a country that debatably has the toughest gun control laws in the modern world.

You may be asking what my point is. It's that regardless of the laws and regulations people who want to get guns and kill people will get guns and kill people. Or they will build bombs.

Controlling guns more wont decrease the crime rate and in fact evidence suggests the contrary.
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  #50  
Old 07-24-2012, 08:31 PM
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That wasn't my intention, sorry if it came off that way. I thought we were having a good time.
:shrug: I'm not upset or anything, I just don't feel like talking about it. I was dangerously close to getting snarky and implying paranoia as the reason why most people CCW, so I need to stop.

And for the record, my opinion is not in any way influenced by a lack of training in how to use a firearm or the news. I don't have a fear of guns, I have a fear of idiots using them. Like you all parrot to me every time I get involved in this debate, guns are just tools. They're just more dangerous than most other tools.

I've also not once stated that I want more gun control, I don't. That's not the ideal this country was built on. I just don't think we need civilians packing heat everywhere they go. That's also not the ideal this country was built on.
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  #51  
Old 07-24-2012, 08:35 PM
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  #52  
Old 07-24-2012, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicSkimmr View Post
:shrug: I'm not upset or anything, I just don't feel like talking about it. I was dangerously close to getting snarky and implying paranoia as the reason why most people CCW, so I need to stop.

And for the record, my opinion is not in any way influenced by a lack of training in how to use a firearm or the news. I don't have a fear of guns, I have a fear of idiots using them. Like you all parrot to me every time I get involved in this debate, guns are just tools. They're just more dangerous than most other tools.

I've also not once stated that I want more gun control, I don't. That's not the ideal this country was built on. I just don't think we need civilians packing heat everywhere they go. That's also not the ideal this country was built on.
fwiw, you and i think alike.
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  #53  
Old 07-24-2012, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by VicSkimmr View Post

I've also not once stated that I want more gun control, I don't. That's not the ideal this country was built on. I just don't think we need civilians packing heat everywhere they go. That's also not the ideal this country was built on.
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  #54  
Old 07-25-2012, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicSkimmr View Post
...I don't have a fear of guns, I have a fear of idiots using them. Like you all parrot to me every time I get involved in this debate, guns are just tools. They're just more dangerous than most other tools...
Honestly, I think we're all in fear of idiots with guns. We're just looking at it differently.

Nobody's really going to change someone's mind about their stance on this issue. But people should understand that most gun owners simply see guns as protection in our hands. And we're constantly being grouped with these idiots who go on shooting sprees. The whole "you have a gun, you must be an idiotic killer" thing gets old. Not that that's what you were saying, but we do hear it from the media.
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  #55  
Old 07-25-2012, 02:44 AM
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I have a concealed carry permit and yeah it is mostly paranoia that I have it. There has all so been several instances where I think it was a good idea to have one. Luckly nothing happened but, I believed if I had stuck around the area it would have.


Really I think the issue here is not gun control but, more of helping ourselves and others preventing tings like this.
2 good books that would help are by a retired Army LT Col Dave Grossman.
http://www.killology.com/killrev.htm
http://www.killology.com/book_oncombat_summary.htm
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  #56  
Old 07-25-2012, 02:44 AM
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How very christian of him to shoot to kill instead of neutralizing the threat. Intentional? Or just poor aim?


Police officers are trained to shoot to stop the threat (TV-land has people thinking they shoot to kill) and they are trained to shoot center mass. There is no such thing as intentionally shooting an active-shooter in the hand, arm, leg, finger, toe, etc.

My wife used to think this same way until I explained how incredibly hard it would be to shoot someone in the arm or leg. Go to a gun range, trace the outline of your arm or leg on a target, hang the target on the line then have someone bounce the line and move the target closer and further from you while you try to put rounds within the outline of your arm or leg. Don't miss because there may be other people behind your target. You are accountable for every round from your gun and that includes the ones that miss and hit things behind your target. And this is in a controlled environment without people running around screaming, shots being fired back at you and otherwise just chaos.

That officer did exactly what he had to do in that church. He stopped the threat. Dirt bag died as a result? Too bad for him.
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  #57  
Old 07-25-2012, 04:43 AM
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So back on to the news and away from our personal ways of handling the world around us.

Some idiot has filed the first law suit against the theater, doctors, and warner bros. Pointing the finger at everyone EXCEPT THE SHOOTER! I mean really?!

Quote:
One of the victims in the James Holmes mass murder spree has lawyered up and plans to file a lawsuit ... because he feels the theater dropped the ball in a very fatal way.

Torrence Brown, Jr. was in Century 16 Theater when Holmes let loose. One of Brown's best friends, A.J. Boik, was shot in the chest and died. Brown, who was not physically injured, claims to now suffer from extreme trauma.
http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/24/james-...suit-shooting/
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  #58  
Old 07-25-2012, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Apex View Post
Honestly, I think we're all in fear of idiots with guns. We're just looking at it differently.

Nobody's really going to change someone's mind about their stance on this issue. But people should understand that most gun owners simply see guns as protection in our hands. And we're constantly being grouped with these idiots who go on shooting sprees. The whole "you have a gun, you must be an idiotic killer" thing gets old. Not that that's what you were saying, but we do hear it from the media.
I'm not lumping anyone in with anything. These crazed gunman aren't members of the NRA and I highly doubt any of them have held a CCW permit. I'm just saying I don't trust the general population and I don't like the idea of them carrying guns. It doesn't help that there are tons of discussions just like this one going on all around us after this incident, and you find people like this (from another forum i visit):

Quote:
I carry because I have a desire to help/save people. I am not the best at hand-to-hand combat. I am an excellent shot, and perform well in firefights. I feel confident I would have a better chance if saving someone with a bullet than with a fist, if deadly force is required.

There are many situations (especially close-quarters) where tackling someone would not result in minimal collateral damage. A clean shot to disconnect all motor function is some times the best option.
and it scares the fuck out of me to know these people are among us all the time.

edit: I should mention that I know not all CCW feel the same way he does. I know there are responsible people out there who carry and I'm not saying any of you are like him.
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Last edited by VicSkimmr; 07-25-2012 at 01:50 PM..
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  #59  
Old 07-25-2012, 02:08 PM
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back on topic...
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/07/...rora-survivors

good on him for going to visit the victims. they were obviously the biggest batman fans since they were at the midnight showing.
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  #60  
Old 07-25-2012, 02:28 PM
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We went last night and enjoyed the movie, but the part that was the most memorable to me was when the Police officer walked in to make his presence known, checked the exit door, and stood nearby for a while. Our local theater was obviously trying to do their part to help everyone feel comfortable, but I couldn't help but think about the victims and the shooting that took place while sitting there.

For me, these types of events help me remember one thing... none of us know how long we'll be here, and I don't want to regret the way I've spent my life.
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